Wednesday, September 21, 2011

I am not a selfish prick for being a parent

     I know it's been a while since I posted anything, but that's because lately I've been doing other things that matter to me as much as my writing.  Today's post is a rebuttal specifically to this post, and generally to this post, both written by

     "As always, I agree completely! Very well said! I love that you mentioned the childfree being excellent at conversation. I was stuck with a bunch of women with kids at a party last weekend and all they talked about was pics of their kids and different child photographers. Dull! They were so involved and selfish about it, they didn't even notice I was there. Or so it seemed. I have witnessed the selfishness of parents so many times. They feel they deserve more and take priority because 'we have kids'."


"the myth that until a person becomes a parent, s/he doesn't know what love is and doesn't know what it means to be a giving, selfless person."  I honestly agree with this.  It's an utter load of horse manure that a person can't know true love without being a parent.  I know many people who for one reason or another don't have children, and they are all normal, healthy, sane, caring, giving people.  Love, to be blunt, is a set of chemical reactions in your brain tied to specific memories and events that all tie together to form a feeling you get.  It is entirely possible, and even probable, that a person will know love prior to ever becoming a parent.  The reverse is true, too.  It's possible to be a parent and not know true love.  It all depends on your experiences prior to either event happening.  Were you raised in a home with parents who cared for you, supported you, and made sure that you knew the difference between right and wrong?  Then you knew true love right off the bat.  Did you or do you have a friend that no matter what happens, you'll be there for them?  You know true love.  I could fill a book with the examples that don't entail being a parent.  As a father, I can honestly say that since my child was born out of the love that my wife and I share, and that I would do anything to ensure his well-being, I love him.
     However there were a few points which I have to disagree with both in the first and second posts.  The first of those is that you state that it is not selfless to meet one's responsibilities.  It depends on the circumstances.  I am obligated by law and my own moral code to feed, clothe, educate, and not be negligent to the recipient of my wife's and my genetic material.  However, I am not obligated in any way, shape or form to do more than that.  But I do, because I love my son.  I love watching the smile on this face when he mimics something that I do, or when he does something completely on his own that his little baby brain finds amazing.  I read to my son because it brings him joy.  Sure, I could just put him in his playpen and play video games, watch movies, etc, but I willingly postpone things I enjoy doing until he is asleep or having quality mommy time so that I can spend quality time with him to ensure he knows that his daddy loves him very much.  You also state that a truly selfless person looks around, identifies problems that existing people have and gives of themselves to help them.  Is it impossible for me to be selfless as a father and as a person in general?  I think not, as my primary job is an unpaid one where I volunteer my time to assist those with problems.  I don't seem to have an issue balancing being a caring father and a resource guide to those in need.  I know at least 150 more people who are in the same boat I am that have that issue either.  Therefore I submit that your statement that meeting your responsibilities is not selfless is false if it is applied to everyone in general.
     You also state that parents are in many ways more selfish than non-parents, and that non-parents are in many ways more selfless.  I'll state right now that my wife and I chose to become parents because we wanted a child.  It's as simple as that.  We're both healthy, young, adults who are compatible with each other in pretty much every way that there can be, and we decided to turn our love for each other into a child.  Did my son ask to be born?  No.  Will he regret the life we've given him?  Only time will tell, but hopefully not.  Did we decide to have a baby because we wanted a miniature version of ourselves running around the house?  HELL no.  It is our intent to introduce our son to art, literature, history, science, music, and a myriad of other subjects.  And when he starts showing signs of critical thinking, we're going to start asking him to make decisions about what he likes.  If he likes something we do, great.  If not, also great, because it means that he is capable of choosing for himself.  If my son decides he doesn't like sports, I'm not going to shove them down his throat.  I might be disappointed that he doesn't want to watch football or play catch with me, but I will try to encourage his other interests and take an interest in what he does, even if it's not something I personally find interesting.  So tell me again how that's selfish of me?  And just because I have a child it doesn't mean that I won't be able to advance in my chosen field or spend time doing things I enjoy.  Yes, I will have to plan more carefully, but that is a choice I made when my wife and I decided to bring a child into this world.  Having a child means that I will have to work harder in order to get noticed at work.  Having a child might mean that I have to go through a complicated scheduling dance to spend time with friends if they want to do an adults only activity, but I had to do that before I had a child due to the nature of the field that I used to, and will in the future, work in.  There's no change there.  If a friend truly needs me, then they won't mind if I bring my son along.  I'm capable of entertaining my son while a friend get's his/her car fixed.  Not only that, but I ENJOY entertaining my son.  And if I get to do so while helping someone else, so much the better.
     You state that those without children are better employees.  Not in my book.  If you're a good parent, you're also good at time management.  You have to be able to make dinner and pay attention to your child at the same time.  You have to be able to talk on the phone while paying attention to your child.
People without children are better conversationalists?  HA!  Where did you hear that?  In my circle of friends, I'd say that about 85% of them have children.  When any number of us get together, the topics usually cover a wide range of things, and -gasp- most of them aren't child related!  Sports?  Check.  Current events?  Check.  Politics?  You got it.  New art exhibit?  Only if it's something we're interested in seeing.  Best beaches on the island?  Always.  New technology?  That is almost always a topic of conversation because we're all technophiles in one way or another.  Gossip about our different jobs, interesting anecdotes, funny stories, pretty much nothing is taboo as a topic of conversation.  And yes, we talk about our children too, because everyone in my circle of friends loves their children.
     I also want to point out that you said being parents makes married couples less happy because they aren't able to fully love, support, and appreciate their spouses.  Really?  Since becoming parents, both my wife and I have grown closer than we were pre-parenthood.  I don't know, maybe we're an oddity.  Except that I know lots of people who seem to have grown closer as well since having children.  Having a child is a bonding experience for couples.  You get to see sides of your partner that you never knew existed.  If your relationship is strong, you grow closer for having seen those facets of their personality.  If not, then yes, your relationship will be put under strain.  How you deal with that strain is up to you though.
     In the second post I linked, you give 100 reasons not to have kids.  While a small few are valid points, the bulk of that list is for selfish reasons.  Be able to veg on the couch all weekend and not be judged?  Really?  Be able to eat what you want, when you want?  Not have to sit through "school-related drudgery?"  Those sound like selfish reasons to me.  So what if I am interested in how my child does in school?  Just because that doesn't sound interesting to you, that does not mean it isn't to me.  Be able to indulge in your interests without distraction?  I may not be a masters level chef, but I enjoy cooking, and am somehow able to produce different, interesting and delightful dishes each night, all while entertaining a child.  Watching TV shows or movies without constant interruption?  Doesn't seem to be a problem.  I may not get to watch House when it airs each week, but I do get to watch it uninterrupted.  So what if I don't get to go to a movie on opening night.  I didn't do that before we had a child, so what challenge does that pose.  Doesn't this post almost completely invalidate your thought that those without children are more selfless?  I guess it just depends on your perspective.
     Wrapping up, I applaud you for making the choice not to have children.  It proves that you are a rational, sane human being capable of making your own choices.  However I think it unfair of you to demonize people for choosing to have children.  Responsible child bearing will not contribute to societal decay or the over-population of our planet.  Responsible parents don't drive gas-guzzlers.  Responsible, caring, loving parents raise children that might one day be running this country, or be the doctor who saves your life, or even be the nice orderly in your retirement community who brings you fresh flowers every week because it makes you happy.  And sure, some parents can be over bearing, because most parents tend to think of their children as precious little unique snowflakes that everyone should cherish.  Polite parents don't shove their kids down everyone's throat though.  So before you make generalizations about how having kids ruins parents, please take into account that there are parents who are perfectly happy, and capable of contributing to their communities, work places, and the general betterment of everyone around them.

14 comments:

  1. Thanks for your rebuttal. I am glad my post inspired you to write a thoughtful response. If you edit out the "bitch, get over yourself", I'd be happy to post it and I am sure you will get a lot of feedback.

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  2. I think that is a reasonable request. Edit made. I look forward to reading some of the feedback from your readership.

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  3. Jerod, I feel like you misunderstood the whole point of why Mandy decided to write her rebuttal to begin with. I believe it was sparked by yet another interview with a celebrity in which she is exalting the wonders of motherhood and decries how she ever survived without her child, how silly she was thinking her life was fulfilled before said child came along. She called her pre-childed self "self-obsessed, self-involved" and how happy she was to give that up to finally join the club of maturity, wisdom, and sainthood.
    We hear this kind of thing ALL the time. And as a parent, you don't notice how much glory and praise parents receive solely for the ability of procreating and how often we are not taken as seriously or seen as "seflish" and inferior and childish (no pun intended).
    Parents are seen as selfless, who work day in and day out sacrificing for other people, and we think it's ridiculous that that kind of recognition exists for people just because they had sex and it resulted in a kid. The amount of praise is equatable to winning a Nobel prize. And for what? I don't think we should be rewarding people for adding people to a planet with a 7 billion population. I don't think that's noble, especially because you did it solely for the good experiences yo wanted to get out of it. If we are to reward parents it should be when they actually have raised the kid and they turn out decent. But many will just further erode society, commit crimes, and live in their parent's house until they're 30. I just don't understand why that is seen as the all-encompassing important sacrifice. It's simply another lifestyle choice. You talk about the "extra" sacrifices you make for your son, but how is that of any benefit to anyone outside your family? Should I consider myself selfless for giving love and quality time to my adopted shelter dogs? I don't think so, I'm just doing something I enjoy and I think is right. All we are asking is equality, not that parents be elevated above us. We make sacrifices for parents at work all the time, when they have to leave early for Johnny's soccer practice or dentist appointment or they need the holiday off and we don't because THEY HAVE CHILDREN!
    Childless/childfree people aren't less important just because they don't have children in their lives. And their lives aren't less meaningful. And they're not just going through a "phase" and will "change their mind" later. We get talked down to and degraded for our choice all the time and it's offensive. Where are the childfree people in sitcoms? Why do we not have role models to look up to? Why do people not even consider that you don't HAVE to have children? See interviews with childfree people on the Today show and Tyra. They are treated like pariahs and the whole time it's dripping with condescension. It's offensive. You don't notice all these things because you're a parent. We are simply challenging this ridiculous notion that parents are selfless saints and martyrs for doing something so ordinary it happens thousands of times every day.

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  4. Anonymous, I wish I could "like" your comment. You have eloquently conveyed the frustrations the Child-free, childless, unchilded, whatever you want to call us, feel every time our choices are questioned. I realize, Jerod, you feel "demonized" by this one post that Mandy wrote on a blog intended to provide a much needed place of support and venting from those of us without kids, but seriously... how would you feel if the meaningfulness of your life, relationships, and/or marriage were constantly denigrated and yes, demonized, by mainstream media, news shows, talk show hosts, your parents/grandparents, co-workers, and, hell, even by complete strangers? It is even worse when one is a female. You feel the need to defend your choice to be a parent, and that is understandable, but guess what? You voluntarily peered into a blog for those of us who are constantly put on the defensive regarding OUR choice and soo tired of it. What did you expect? Songs of praise?

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  5. Anon/Annie: I'll go ahead and respond to both of you at the same time. To start, I don't write because I want everyone to agree with everything I say. I encourage differing points of view because otherwise, how will I learn and grow as a person? I've had a chance to read more of Mandy's blog, and I think she does a wonderful job conveying her thoughts and opinions about the child-free life style. I can laugh at some of the jokes she makes because for the first 15 years of my adult life, that was me. With one exception: I knew that at some point I wanted to be a father.
    I didn't miss the point of her blog entry, I just felt it unfair for her to make generalizations regarding the selflessness of all parents and non-parents. Not all parents are selfish. Not all child-free people are selfless. Life just doesn't work that way.
    I'm assuming that both of you made the choice to be child-free, and I salute you for it. I am curious about this discrimination you speak of, though. Every place I've worked, if you couldn't meet your commitment, you had to use your personal time. No personal time? you either made a deal to take unpaid personal time, or you got fired. Holidays were based on seniority, not if you had kids or not. Maybe it's just the jobs I've worked in. If that's the case, I need to find me one of those sweet jobs where having a kid makes me immune from consequences.
    As for not seeing things in the media, on talk shows, etc, maybe it's because I'm a man and watch different things? I get most of my news on the internet. I can't stand talk shows. In movies and TV sitcoms/dramas, it seems like having kids serves one function: so they can get in trouble which the parents will have to clean up. Again, it could just be a difference between the stuff I watch versus the stuff you watch.
    All that being said, why should you have to defend anything? If you're defending a choice, you're letting someone else tell you it's wrong.
    I won't be judged a saint because of my ability to impregnate a woman. That's actually a good way to be judged badly. However, I like to think that my ability to do good for others outweighs that. I just so happen to do so while being a parent. So please tell me how that makes me selfish.

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  6. I'm not calling YOU selfish. I'm calling parents who call themselves "selfless" NOT selfless. And I'm saying to those parents who call childfree/childless "selfish" - we are not selfish based on the fact that we haven't "sacrificed" for children.

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  7. You're right. We shouldn't have to defend our choice. You seem to miss the point in that statement. People DO flat out tell us we are wrong for our choice. I think maybe because you have always known that you wanted children that you never have had to deal with the insinuations and questions imposed by others. I've been told that I am selfish for not wanting kids and that a woman "is not a real woman until she has a baby." You have never had to deal with these types of statements because having a child was part of your life plan and that is what most people consider "normal". So no one ever harassed you or gave you uninvited advice or comments about what a "wrong" choice you were making. So please don't infer that this is just our imagination or that media/society stereotyping of those without children don't exist. I think you don't see that, not because of the movies you watch or shows you avoid, but because you are not affected by it.

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  8. @Annie: I was inferring nothing of the sort. I don't believe you would have any reason to lie about it, I was just saying I hadn't seen it. I'm not one of those people who believes that just because I can't see a problem, it doesn't exist.
    I do firmly believe that you shouldn't have to defend your choice in this matter to others. What business is it of theirs, other than, "Are you happy?" If the answer is yes, then that should be good enough. Thank-you for your excellent feedback!
    @anonymous: Thank-you for clarifying! Also thank-you for excellent feedback.

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  9. Thanks, Jerod, for this interesting debate! I truly wish a person's choice to have or not have kids wasn't such a source of controversy and that each choice was considered valid and not "abnormal" or "mainstream" or whatever. Well, thank goodness for open dialogue like this one. All the best to you and yours.

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  10. You like watching sports and playing catch? You could have done both with your wife...

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  11. @Anonymous: Considering it's too early in my son's life to tell what his interests will be, that is a viable alternative. My wife and I do watch football together, despite the fact that we support different teams. It works. We are pretty active together, as well. The wealth of things to do outdoors, and for free no less, is amazing.

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  12. [I don’t know if this went through the first time I sent it. Sorry for any duplication.]

    The more I read about parenting and being childfree, the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that you can’t tell a DAMN THING about a person just based on whether that person is a parent or not. You just can’t jump to conclusions. As a childfree person, this is the biggest message I want to tell. Don’t assume I’m a certain way just because I don’t have kids. My part is to not assume a parent is a certain way just because he’s a parent.

    There are no useful conclusions to draw from a person just because that person has kids or not. It’s just stupid prejudice like “racial profiling.” We need a term like that for when someone pre-judges you based on the presence or absence of children in your life. Reproductive profiling? Natalotyping? Nulliparism? What’s a term that covers both pronatalism and antinatalism?

    The world has obnoxious, self-righteous parents and obnoxious, self-righteous non-parents. (I admit I’m biased. I’m generally more accepting of obnoxious non-parents than parents. Unfair, I know. I accept that many parents have the opposite preference.) I could be a jerk because I’m childfree, or I could be childfree because I’m a jerk, or I could just be a jerk independently of my reproductive status.

    I tend to think being a jerk will not be solved by any particular reproductive choice. A lot of people on both sides don't see it that way, but I do.

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  13. The articles you refer to were not ment to make you feel like a jerk or selfish or defensive. They weren't written for you at all. Yet you wrote a "rebuttal" to an article you read on a site specifically made for non-parents because....?

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  14. I truly enjoyed reading both your rebuttal and the original post, which I found while conducting a search for why some celebrities do not have kids.
    I think you both have your own truth.
    I would like to add that having children is also a very strong natural instinct and if we all decided not to have any, then it is good bye with human race.;)
    I think therefore personally that having children is somehow - when it comes to it - why we are here, but in no way does that mean that a life can not be complete without them.
    :)))

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